The Baby Name Wizard

Does Amanda fit that mold?

I forgot the character in Close Encounters was even named Gillian--I don't think the name even comes up a lot in the script. The male lead is Roy--that didn't get any bump--and the little boy, Gillian's son, was Barry--again, no bump, even with Barry Gibb also on the scene at the same time. (I suspect the movie's character was named Barry just to rhyme with the young actor's name, Carey--he was a very little boy.)

So the "readiness" factor makes a lot of sense. Right name, right time, boom.

Was there also a bump in the 90's because of Gillian Anderson of X-files fame?

Our niece Jill now goes by the name "Jillian", especially with people she knows through work. She expressed some concern that the alteration of her name would hurt her mother's feelings, but my sister-in-law said, "Oh, no--I should have named you 'Jillian' in the first place, instead of just 'Jill'." Except that our Jill was born in 1973, and so was just a few years too early to be a Jillian; her mother simply would not have thought of it then.

I was in grade school when Ryan's Hope debuted, and watched it with our babysitter, unbeknownst to my mother. I remember loving the characters "Mary" and "Faith" but being enchanted by "Jillian"'s name. Perhaps the boost in the 80's could also be attributed to early, impressionable "Jillian Coleridge" fans finally being old enough to have children to name. (Similar to the popularity of "Hayley" when Hayley Mills's young fans grew up.)

That is so cool!

Gillian is a name I have really liked for a long time, and although I never watched the soap, I remember thinking while hearing of X-Files that Gillian Anderson's spelling of her first name was quite pretty. I am surprised Gillian/Jillian haven't become more popular since then.
Come to think of it, many of my all time favorite names come from programs I watched in childhood or films. As a young teen I liked Danielle from All in the Family in the early 80's, and from Little House on the Prairie, the names Caroline, Grace, Jonathan, Cassandra, (characters)and Alison (actresses) were and still are some of my favorite names. Other sources were Olivia, Ben, and Cora (the Waltons) Natalie, Charlotte, and Joanna (the Facts of Life) and Amanda (Bad News Bears). I could probably think of many more!

It looks like Gillian Anderson was born in the late '60s. I wonder what inspired the choice for her parents. Do we know the derivation of Gillian?

I think Amanda is more in the realm of reviving an old name, like Sophia and Isabella (and less popular names like Hazel) are. I've always heard that Amanda was a Victorian name (though not a super popular one) that was ready to be revived.

Would Melissa fall in that category, or does it owe its popularity in the '70s/'80s to Allman Brothers Band fans?

I had a friend when I was younger named Gillian, but pronounced with a hard G, like in girl.

Everyone called her Gilli. It fit her so well, because she was adorable and free-spirited.

Then at some point in late high school, she started to take herself more seriously and insisted on being called Gil, still with the hard G.

I definitely prefer Gillian with the hard G over the rhyme of Jillian.

Thinking of more names like this-the example of Jill vs. Jillian and the latter being more popular.
I get Carol vs. Caroline/Carolyn; Susan vs. Susannah; Angel vs. Angelina/Angelica/Angelique/etc. Are there any other "lengthened" names that this phenomenon would apply to? Is the reasoning more along the "chopping" idea just to get a different name or is it the nickname thing? Meaning if you don't care for the sound/style/whatever of Jill go for Jillian, or is it more like "oh I want a name with versatility so Caroline sounds better than just plain Carol"? My feeling is that with girls it's a style thing but with boys it's a nickname thing.
Boys: Max vs. Maxwell/Maximillian;Jack vs. Jackson;John vs. Johnathan;etc.

I've rediscovered my love for Jillian. Wasn't there a witches movie with Sandra Bullock and Nicole Kidman with a character named Jillian? I think she was sometimes called Jilly or JillyBean which I found quite adorable.

Just thinking... Laura will soon be able to attribute this "Detective" post to why Vivian/Vivienne exploded. It's familiar enough, has the nickname Vivi which is a little step away from the pretty but overused Livi/Olivia, it has the "V" like Ava, Eva names...oh yes, parents are ready for it.

As Sister Melinda said: right name, right time, boom.

Fascinating. Another name which seems to have risen in sync with media exposure is Olivia, but I am missing a link... perhaps Laura or one of you can help...

In 1974 Olivia was 402 in popularity. In 1975 it had jumped to 232... What happened during this time? Olivia Newton John moves to the US and has her first 4 number one singles.

Between 1975 and 1986, Olivia stayed pretty steady -- it goes up and down a few spots ranging between 248 and 196 during those 12 years.

Then in 1987, it jumped from 215 to 166. I thought it was due to the little girl named Olivia on the Cosby show, but she did not join the show until 1989. Her appearance coincides with another large leap from 123 in 1989 to 72 in 1990. Then there is its steady march to its high mark of number 4 in 2004.

So was there something that happened in 1986/1987 which caused the 2nd leap in Olivia? Soap opera character? Movie character?
Hurricane?

Guesses?

I believe Gillian has a very different history in the UK. It was popular in my Mum's generation (she was born in the 1930's), and so she chose to name my sister Sarah Gillian in 1970. (That's Gillian with a J sound. I have never come across it pronounced with a hard G in the UK.)
By 1970 it was already considered old-fashioned, which didn't bother Mum. In fact, she was appalled when she discovered how popular Sarah was- she had had no idea.
I believe we do have Jillian with a J in the UK too, but it's not as common. Quite often, a girl named Gillian would shorten it to Jill with a J, but Jill was not the given name.

I've noticed this spelling difference with other names too. For example, Geoffrey in the UK and Jeffrey in the US, and Stephen/Steven. It's not universal, but certainly more common in the UK to use the first way, until recently anyway.

I have no idea whether this was in 1986/7, but Olivia is the name of a Sesame Street character. She's a middle-aged black jazz singer who performs with the sax-playing owl (Hoots?). I was in prime Sesame Street watching years in the late '80s, and it was definitely my first exposure to the name. For years, I thought of it as a name that only middle-aged black women had! I also found it quite pretty, though.

I think the FABULOUS, award-winning Olivia picture books are part of the rise in popularity. First book OLIVIA SAVES THE CIRUS was published in 2001.

I thought OLIVIA was the first book? Also, I would say the books, being named after a real girl, are a symptom not a cause of the rise. (And, yes, they are fabulous!)

In 1983, Alice Walker's book The Color Purple was publsihed and then in 1985 was the Steven Spielberg film. Olivia is the name of the child.

Bell Book and Candle was another witchcraft movie, starring Kim Novak as another Gillian, using the shortened name of Gil with the hard G. As Valerie says, I think this pronunciation is the US variant.

I meant to note that the movie came out in 1958, well before Gillian showed on the charts.

Thoughts on what drove up the popularity of Kayla in the early 80s? It was 581 in 1981 and shot up to 133 the next year. Wikipedia shows that a character on Days of Our Lives, Kayla Brady, showed up around that time.

There was a similar rise for Morgan. It was 459 in 1979 and 162 by 1981. Thoughts on where that came from?

Growing up, my best friend was named Jillian. I was born in 1982 and she was born in 1979 and we often thought of ourselves as a "Blossom and Six" type because of our names. Mara and Jillian were strange names in a neighborhood with Megan, Kyle, Dan, Matt, and 2 Kevins.

I think *some* of the Morgan popularity is that it is a sound-alike/look-alike to Megan which was also growing at that time. (But if anyone want to suggest why Megan took off, I'm all ears.)

Hmmm...Olivia in the Color Purple... perhaps. The actress on Sesame Street was on from 1979 to 1989, so I don't think it caused a leap.

Morgan -- Morgan Fairchild the actress. Appears on Dallas in 1978 and then in a series Flamingo Road in 1980. Plus a few other guest appearances in tv shows and made for TV movies.

Kayla -- I think you are right that it was the soap opera character.

It's interesting that some of these names that take off because of a celebrity, aren't even the celebrities' "real" names. Morgan Fairchild was born "Patsy Ann" and, of course, we all know that Miley Cyrus was born "Destiny." Fascinating that made up stage names can have such an effect on baby-naming parents.

I think it makes a lot of sense that sometimes the made up stage names have a lot of influence... because it increases the odds that it is the right name at the right time. The same qualities that draw the actor/actress to choose that name appeal to the parents who like the name after hearing on television or in the movies. Now it has all the attractiveness that drew the actor/actress to choose it AND the glamour of hollywood attached to it.
I've noticed, too, that a lot of pen names are currently fashionable names (I think someone may have brought that up on this blog before) or even fashion forward names. This makes sense too, since an author is going to want to be memorable, and if he or she is writing for a younger audience especially, seem hip. Sophie Kinsella comes to mind, for instance. I'm pretty sure that's a pen name for a woman who is MUCH older than the young characters featured in her books. But I may be wrong on that.

Hey Mari, if you skim the comments section in the last post (about Jolie's twins), I gave a mini-thesis on why I think Vivian will experience a surge. NE minds do indeed think alike!

I knew one Gillian--hard "G," male, and Scottish. I gathered at the time that it was a Scottish men's name. But that was very long ago, when I was quite young and unable to do follow-up research.

Re: Valerie and the hard "G" Gillian

That's funny -- I've *only* come across the hard "G" version in the UK. I had two Scottish friends with that name when I lived in Aberdeen a decade ago. One would be in her 30s now, the other in her late 40s to early 50s.

RE Olivia... The character Charlene on Designing Women named her baby girl Olivia. The episode in which she "gave birth" aired as a one hour special on New Years Day 1990. Would that be enough to give the name such a boost?

Kayla definitely has to be for the Days of Our Lives character. I watched back then, and she was indeed beloved. In fact, that's one reason I can't get behind the name Vivian/Vivienne - there was a Days character who went by that name, and although I haven't seen or thought of her in YEARS, I cannot divorce the name from DOOL.

Did Sophia (RIP) make a comeback due to all the people who grew up watching The Golden Girls (maybe even the reruns)?

I'll be having baby #3 in about 6 weeks and Jillian is currently my top name for a girl so this thread has been interesting. I actually didn't realize the name is so new - 70s. I thought it had a timeless quality to it. I guess since it's made up of two more timeless names "Jill" and "Ann" it gives that effect to me. I tend to like any names that have a form of "Ann" in it anyway. I like the way Jillian can roll off the tonque quickly (jill-e-un) or more frilly (jill-lee-anne).

I don't know anyone with the name. In 2006, my dental hygienist named her new baby Jillian and I was struck by how unique and pretty it sounded with out sounding "out there". Wasn't there a contestant on Project Runway last season named Jillian? Hubby isn't sure about the name yet (he prefers Julianne), but he is a big X-files fan so he may come around.

I could use some input on a name for baby 3. I really like southern sounding names that make me think of hoop skirts and plantation houses. I also really like names with a z sound. I really like the names we used for our two girls: Susannah Constance and Isabelle Ione (Ione pronounced i-OWN, not i-own-EE). The only z sounding girl name we have on our list though is Anastasia and that sounds more Russian than southern. Lol… I realize that I might be painting myself into a corner trying to match z sounds since there are a lot of names out there that have it, but we don’t care for them for various reasons. I’m thinking about trying to put the z sound in the middle name if we just can’t find something we like for the first name. So how does Jillian, Julianne, Madeline, or Anastasia sound with Susannah & Isabelle? Or is there something else? At least with the boys name we’re pretty happy with either Isaac or Zachary.

Hehehe! I forgot about Vivian on DOOL--yeah, not really namesake material. But it still put the name in the air, added to its familiarity. With names, 10 side characters might be better popularizers than one or two main characters.

I imagine the hard-G male Gillian is a variant on Cillian/Killian, no?

Olivia--I still connect that to the Waltons--I think it rings "old-fashioned" from that media presence, without actually being many real-life grandmothers' names. (Wasn't this one of the "faux antiques" Laura wrote about last year?)

I wonder if some media names have two "bumps"--one for the babies born soon after the name has begun appearing in popular shows, and one a few years later for the children of people who carried the name for a few years, planning to use it when the chance arose. Same cause, two different cohorts responding.

Shirley, congrats on your new baby on the way! I think Zachary is a perfect name with your girls. Jillian is a good pick also, but maybe Lillian evokes more of that southern belle feeling you're looking for. Some other ideas:

Cassandra
Marianne
Jaqueline
Vanessa
Vivian (just to bring things full circle with the last thread!)

Good luck deciding!

Shirley,
As a mom to a Suzanna who loves the Z sound I have to recommend:

Eliza

Other names that come to mind:

Caroline or Carolina
Charlotte

I like Julianne and Madeline the best of your names, but the others are nice too.

Gillian in the UK - such a middle-aged name. I'd be amazed to hear of a baby called Gillian or Jillian.

I was at primary school in the 1970s with a girl called Jilian Hill - I think the single l was to prevent her becoming Jill Hill, and she was always called Jilian.

Shirley -- If you're looking for a /z/ sound on a name that conjures a Southern belle, I think Wendy's got it with Eliza. That would work very well with your other daughters' names, too.

Otherwise, I like Jillian. I'm not crazy about it paired with Anastasia, though, because of the repeating /an/ sound. Why not Jillian Eliza or Jillian Elizabeth if you move the /z/ to the mn spot?

Yes, I love the name Marianne. That one needs to come back.

Mari, the movie is Practical Magic. Nicole Kidman's character is named Gillian.

Curiously, I know three girls under three named Jillian and a five year old with Jilliana as her mn. It was also the answer to my little riddle a few weeks back-you'll remember there was a troop of sisters at swim class named Stella, Clara, Gabriella, and...the babe turned out to be Jillian.

I love it, but had to let go of it for any hypothetical daughters when we used Jack for our older son.

Shirley-Could I suggest Cecily? Or how about French-Cosette has the Z sound and says hoop skirts to me!
Or Rosalie?
I think all your current choices are very pretty ones. I'm inclined to say Madeline works best with the other girls' names. It is terribly popular out here, but I don't know if you mind that.

I know a Gillian (hard G) and a Jillian (soft G) and always thought of these as two different names.

Shirley: How about Anneliese or Annalise? It has the "Anne" component and the s/z sound (sort of). It would seem to fit your other daughters names. I have always thought this was a lovely name.

I agree that Ann Jillian is the trigger. I definitely remember the blonde bombshell in the tv show "It's a Living." In fact, I can still remember the theme song. She has the correct spelling to account for the surge as well.

I was actually named after Ann Jillian myself. Fun to hear more about my name! Thanks!

I have long thought that Gillian was one of those medieval names, with a long, checquered history. Juat checked Dunkling and Gosling, and they confirm that. It's the English form of "Juliana", but apparently both hard and soft "G"'s have been used.

"The Collins Dictionary of First Names" says the name lost favor for a period in the seventeenth century, when it became associated with "to jilt", through its nicknames Gillot and Gillet!

Short forms Gill and Jill came to be used independently. "Jillian" is a variant of Gillian-- as Kathryn is to Katherine, Jillian is to Gillian.

D. and G. also mention a completely separate Gaelic masculine name, "Gillean" which takes a hard "g" and denotes a "servant of St. John". Says it is almost entirely exclusive to Scotland... I'd bet at this point it would be constantly confused with the female "Gillian".

Shirley - I'd like to throw Melanie out there, as she was a true Southern lady in GWTW.

For Shirley--

Southern-ish names with a Z sound: Louisa (there is a Louisa Street in New Orleans, not far from Pauline). Lizette (if you count Louisiana as the South which I sure do), and REALLY Southern, Liza as a double name (Liza Jane, Liza Mae/y, Liza Jo, etc.).

Shirley, I like the Eliza and Anneliese suggestions for your girl, or Julianne. Madeline is just too trendy for me to get behind. My younger sister's best friend is named Jillian (she's 22), and I cannot divorce the name from that association.

Eo, you are absolutely correct and I was mistaken; the hard-g Scottish male Gillean I met long ago had the "--ean" spelling. I had forgotten that. But I think that led, subconsciously, to my continued jolt/double-take at hearing the name "Gillian Anderson" pronounced with a soft-g (the American actress and the Australian filmmaker, both female). Even today, I hear the soft-G and register it as "creative," whether in its alternate sound to Gillean or its alternate spelling to Gillian.

Thanks, then, for the link to the medeival soft-g; it helps cement it in my mind.

Speaking of Ryan's Hope, wasn't the most glamorous female character named Ryan? Any big bump in girl Ryans?

As for Olivia, Laura did several interesting posts about the faux-antique trend.

I think Caroline is one of those lengthened names, my sister is Carol (we were born in the 60s, she's named for my mom's good friend, born in the 40s). But I never hear of other Carols my age or younger.

Jane:

Sophie Kinsella is the pen name of Madeleine Wickham (who has also written books under that name, such as "The Tennis Party"), and she was born in 1969, making her in her late thirties and not all THAT much older than the people she writes about. Her first novel came out in 1995 when she was only 26.

Re: Ryan--I knew two girls born in the late 70s/early 80s named Ryan, that I can remember. I can definitely see one of them being named for Ryan's Hope, if there was a glamorous female Ryan character (I never saw the show, so...). Interestingly (to me, anyway), this girl was part of the same group of kids that contained the female Aidan I've mentioned before. They were from a rather moneyed and metropolitan set, and it makes me wonder if the boys names for girls AND the Irish name obsession might've had an early start among such types in the 70s/80s.

The other Ryan, I'm more skeptical about any strong relation to Ryan's Hope, because her older sisters were Shane and Casey, so the parents really seemed to have a solid theme established by the time Ryan showed up. But again--well-to-do urban parents with three Irish boys for girls names. Hmmm....

hyz, hasn't it been established that names in the U.S. start at the so-called "top" of the socio-economic ladder and then trickle "down" to the masses? The famous examples are Crystal, Tiffany, and Courtney; I just can't remember where I've read this.

"Shirley-Could I suggest Cecily? Or how about French-Cosette has the Z sound and says hoop skirts to me!
Or Rosalie?"

I like Cosette, and along the same lines, how about Rosalyn? (As a Texan, I pronounce that Rozz-a-lyn.) Very pretty under-used name.

Easternbetty, yes, I know we've discussed that here in the past--was it one of CKE's assertions? Or was he saying that it's not actually as prevalent a trend as people tend to think? My memory is fuzzy at this point....

Shirley,

My suggestion would be Elizabeth, though maybe it's one of those "z" names you've already considered and eliminated. I like the idea of Susannah, Isabelle and Elizabeth (Anna, Belle and Beth :)).

Otherwise I like the Ros- suggestions and would add Rosalind.

Also:
Clementine (LOVE this name)
Esme
Lucille
Jocelyn
Josephine
Veronica

Good luck!

Shirley-

How about Rosetta or Rozetta?

Easternbetty, I really don't think that has been established. The Freakanomics guys claimed it's true, but they ignored tons of research showing otherwise. (Pet peeve, they never acknowledge that anybody else has researched anything before them!) Besides, the "masses" seem to get their names from reality TV these days! :-)

Apropos of our discussion recently (but in another comments thread) about "fake" names. This is only sort of related, but I'm guessing some NEs may find it humorous.

Does anyone remember that SNL skit with Nicolas Cage where he and his wife are trying to think of names for their new baby? She suggests all manner of names, he rejects them based on their teasing potential. The one I remember is her suggestion of Peter. He responds with a reference to Peter, Paul and Mary.

But then he gets a delivery of some sort and the person asks for Asswipe Johnson. He defensively corrects the pronunciation, "It's ass-WEE-pay." Hilarious!

"hyz, hasn't it been established that names in the U.S. start at the so-called "top" of the socio-economic ladder and then trickle "down" to the masses? The famous examples are Crystal, Tiffany, and Courtney; I just can't remember where I've read this."

I think there's definitely a trickle-down effect to some degree, but based on everything I've ever seen and heard, names like Crystal and Tiffany were never, ever at the top of the socio-economic ladder. Courtney, yes, in my memory appears to have had a little bump mid-60s to mid-70s in that group; it may be a little "common" for the upper crust now that it has in fact trickled down.

The very rich (excluding those who made their money in the entertainment industry) generally seem to like more traditionalist or ancestral names. The ultimate example of this would be seen in royal families. Perhaps it's even the same type of motivation: "This offspring will carry on our dynasty."

Does anyone know why the name Carter became popular in the Plains/Midwest initially?

It seems to have first popped up to the top 100 in South Dakota in 1995. Within the next few years it had spread to Montana, ND, MN, IA, WY, NE, UT, and WI.

In 2000, it was #15 in SD and only in the top 100 in VT, WI, UT, NE, IA, MN, and both Dakotas. Is there someone with the name Carter specifically appealing to South Dakotans?

Oddly*, the name really *exploded* in 2001 and has been semi-popular every where (except for the Southwest and the tri-state area) since then.

*Not odd because of the name itself, which I love. I just can't remember what/who would cause it to become SO popular in a year or less.

To be honest I always assumed Jillian came before Jill. And that Jill was just short for Jillian. Like Lil/Lilly and Lillian.
Or did that actually happen the other way around as well?
How about Milly and Millicent?

Here's the Freakonomics trickle down theory for what it's worth:

http://www.slate.com/id/2116505/

This doesn't answer your question at all, but I have noticed that states with small populations often have unexpected names highly ranked. It doesn't take that many births to bump a name up in SD. Could be the effect of one cool Carter at one highschool in the 70's, or one segment on the local news. I wouldn't be surprised, though, if there were a more legit reason!

Also, 'Sophie' is Madeleine Wickham's middle name, and 'Kinsella' is her mom's maiden name, so it really isn't so much a "created" pen name at all.
In my family the tradition is to give the mother's maiden (or last) name as the child's middle name, so if I used that system, I would be the same name twice!

Amy3-
Yes! I remember that SNL sketch. In fact, when my husband and I are picking on each other we will sometimes call each other ahs-WEE-pay. It will always make us laugh. Excellent recall by the way...I never would have remembered it was Nicolas Cage in that one!

Shirley-
I know a girl named Roselle, which is a really beautiful name. I think that would sound great with your Susanna and Isabella!

Sorry Shirley, that should have read Susannah and Isabelle....

Shirley

Southern with a z? How about Azalia!
My favorite suggested so far is Josephine, I know a little Josie.

I don't know if this will make a difference, but Rosetta is one of Tinkerbell's friends. It looks like Disney is working on Tinkerbell and the Fairies as their next big thing for girls.

I am an Olivia born in 1975 and my mom got my name from the Waltons. I didn't meet another Olivia until I was in my late twenties and now they are everywhere.

My children are Anneliese and Sterling, so I am partial to the Anneliese suggestion made earlier!

We have another baby due in two weeks and can't decide on a name. What boy's name will compliment Anneliese and Sterling? We love traditional- Henry, Edward, James, but are they too plain? And what about Roland or Hugo? Too out there? I worry that Sterling is a bit pretentious already...

Thank you for the help.

(But if anyone want to suggest why Megan took off, I'm all ears.)

Megan W. - The heroine of the best seller book, The Thornbirds (Colleen Mcullough, 1977) was named Megan, nicknamed Meggie. Then the mini-series followed in 1983.

The young actress Megan Ryan starred in the soap 'As The World Turns' in 1982-84.

You didn't mention your age....? The name enjoyed a sharp rise from the 70s through the 90s, reaching 10th on the chart but has been sliding in the past decade.

Can't think any other effect but someone else might suggest something.

oly -- Congratulations on baby #3! I happen to think Henry, Edward, and James are all terrific names. I'd vote for any of those (with a slight edge to James here), and think they complement your other kids' names.

I also like Hugo (I don't care for Roland, though), but I prefer the previous three in this case.

Hmm, where to go from Anneliese and Sterling, that's traditional but not too normal or pretentious or out there... that's a real challenge, lol. I think if you want it to go with the others, especially looking for another boy name to match Sterling, it has to be something with some flair to it. I don't think it HAS to go with, and I love Henry, Edward, and James, but IF you want it to go with, I think those probably are too plain. Hugo and Roland might work, and I know they have fans here, but I don't personally dig them. What about something like... Alastair, Tobias, Piers/Pierce, Graham, Donovan, Duncan, Barrett, Beckett, Tristan, Holden, Jasper, Heath, Thatcher, Lachlan, Dominic, Victor, Finlay, Ivo...

I tried to find things that were familiar but different, and either had a English/UK sound to them (thinking of the pound sterling), or more continental sound (like Anneliese), or LN first sound (Sterling as LN).

Oly,
The boy names on your short list are nice. How about James Edward? I teach Music and see 100+ children every day. James would be distinctive among a group of Cadens, Bradens, Carters, and Trentons. I prefer first and middle names together for this one.
I am having a third child (girl) in Dec. Our girl names in the running are currently Daphne or Phoebe. Any thoughts out there? Our first 2 kids are now 14 and 16, so we're not really going for anything that matches the siblings.

Oly,

I think that the classic traditional boys names like James and Edward are fantastic, but I agree that they might be too plain next to Sterling. You're definitely having a boy? I'll throw out some suggestions with Nymbler's help:
Lincoln
Forrest
Graham
Stefan
Malcolm
Quentin
Schuyler
Grant
Jasper
Louis
Leo
Hugh

Out of that list, I think Lincoln, Graham, and Schuyler sound best with Anneliese and Sterling. I particularly love Lincoln.

I know an Anneliese whose siblings are William and Nicoline, if that gives you any inspiration - though I think Sterling would not fit in with that particular sibling group, so maybe not.

Shirley -

I think Jillian's an adorable name, but if you want to continue the flowy Southern belle vibe your older girls have going on, Julianne or Juliette might be a better choice. By no means, though, would Jillian look out of place within the sibling set. Is Jillian your preferred spelling, or would Gillian seem more of an antique revival to you? For some reason, it strikes me as older, though now we see that's not true.

I always wished my name were Jillian! It's so much fancier and longer than just plain Jill. I never thought to just start introducing myself as Jillian...

re Carter: for me, Carter falls into the 'frontier' name subset, which tend to be popular in the midwest. In fact, I know a family with 4 boys: Carter, Carson, Cody, and Cooper. And one girl: Amy.

New babies alert: Hudson, Carsten, and Carson. Hm.

I always assumed Carter took off due to the tv show ER. In 1994, Carter was ranked 421 on the list.

ER started Fall 1994, in 1995, Carter jumped to 287 and has continued it's climb. He left the show in 2005, so there has been continual exposure for 11 years on one of the top rated shows in the US.

As a surname turned first name, it was a prime choice to rise in the late 1990's...

oly -- Love the suggestion of Lincoln for a sib for Annaliese and Sterling. of your 3 names, I would choose Edward, but think something more unusual is called for...

Guest -- I prefer Phoebe over Daphne.

oly -- Although I still maintain that James would be a fine name with Anneliese and Sterling, if you're looking for something less traditional, Lincoln would be a good bet.

Marjorie - I'm a 1970 Megan, right at the very beginning of the curve. My parents were in advertising and fashion - I'm assuming that since they were always on the lookout for the next big thing, they found it. They didn't hit quite as well with my brother Grant Evan, but both those names had big surges after he was born as well.

How is it that "Carter" and "Madison" escape being stamped "Presidential"? Clinton, a name I would have considered prior to the president seems too political to me. Likewise Reagan. (Though some feel otherwise). Certainly Nixon (which soundwise, would be a lovely name, if it didn't have so much baggage).

oly -- Just checked BNW. Here are Laura's suggestions for brothers for your current kids.

Anneliese (spelled Annalise in BNW): Andreas, Sebastian, Julian, Gunnar, Markus

Sterling: August, Maximilian, Emerson, Forest, Merit

My husband's name is Morgan - he was born in the mid 70's and it was something his mother liked as a masculine/traditional-sounding name. Of course, the fact that starting in the 80's, Morgan became such a popular name for girls *must* be due to Morgan Fairchild's popularity. The celebrity factor at work! Same thing today, little girls being named "Cameron" (similar to Morgan, it was always a boys name) inspired by Cameron Diaz.

Oly, I adore the name Roland. Have you read A.S. Byatt's Possession? The male protagonist in the contemporary set part of the novel is Roland. I think it's a strong but beautiful boys name, which is a difficult combination to find.

I also think Edward goes very nicely with Anneliese and Sterling and is a little less expected than James. You also have some great nickname options, like Ned or Teddy. I forget, did you have George on your short list as well? That I like very much.

As far as others' suggestions, I think Jasper and Alistair are great names, though Alistair might share a few too many sounds with the other kids' names.

Best of luck choosing!

Some off-topic, random thoughts....
Since Carson was brought up, I know someone who had a baby girl Carson in 2004. It just doesn't seem to cross over for me. I know the "son" ending has come up before in these posts and I think that's why. But, I'm just really into feminine names.

Thinking of her made made me think of her older sister, Caroline which is to me a very feminine name. And that lead me think of sibling sets that don't "go" which has also come up before.

I often chat on a forum on another baby website where people's signatures include their children's names/ages. (Oh the names I've seen.) One mama has two girls and the younger one has 3 very feminine names and the older girl has 2 gender neutral names. It almost seemed unfair to the girl with only 2 gender neutral names...I guess that only bothers NEs!! But it made me want to ask her why she chose the names she chose. If she'd done the Gender Neutral FN/Feminine MN combo for both, then they'd match so much better. But, I'm overly obsessed with having "fair" names for siblings which was another topic that's come up before. I'm not even pg with #2 yet (or trying) but I worry I'll never find another name combo I love as much as my #1!

AND, I love all the suggestions for Oly & Shirley. Everybody's on their game! My vote: Grant or Bennett for Oly. They both seem "crisp" like Sterling and Rosalyn or Josaphine for Shirley, besides Rosie and Josie are both too cute.

Thanks CB and Jill C. for all the interesting thoughts on Carter. Wendy, I think you're right about the reason for it's recent widespread popularity. I was never a fan of ER, so no wonder I was puzzled!

Megan W., Carter definitely rings as presidential IMO. And Reagan is so political, that if I meet one I immediately think "Republican parents".

Guest, Daphne reminds me of the best friend of one of the characters on the TV show "Queer as Folk". I always liked her, so that name has good associations for me.

I don't know if this makes any difference to you but in Britain Graham would not be a name I would associate with Anneliese or Sterling. Though I've seen it mentioned a few times around the threads as up and coming in Britain it's deffinately becoming dated. Sort of a male Tracy.
However I totally appreciate that your child is probably more likely to be judged by American standards, I just felt like passing on the information.

Personally I like Tristan but I think Henry or James would work fine as well.

Oly - To my highly untrained ears, Edmund sounds better with Sterling than Edward. However, I have a passionate, irrational love for the name Edmund!

CB: I second the thought of using Edmund to go with Sterling!

Easternbetty: The trickle-down naming theory was explained in Beyond Jennifer and Jason, using the specific examples of Tiffany and Crystal, so I'm guessing that's what you are remembering.

SusieQ and Claire: Thanks for the info on Sophie Kinsella. I don't know where I got the idea that she was much older... could I be thinking of another author, I wonder?

Shirley: I also like Juliet (my daughter's name) or possibly Scarlet? There is also Zoe, if you love the "z" sound.

ET: I want to say that Lillian is just an embellishment of Lily, but I may be wrong.

Easternbetty: Actually, the trickle-down theory was explained along side the notion that names like Tiffany and Crystal would always be low-class because they are named after expensive things... and rich people don't name their children after expensive things, but people with lower incomes do. So that might explain the discordance between the trickle-down theory (which may or may not be true) and names like Tiffany and Crystal feeling as though they could never have been at the top of the socio-economic ladder.
Again, that's the authors of Beyond Jennifer and Jason...

I love all of the suggestions! I can't wait to go over them with my husband.

ET- my husband is English, and he has absolutely refused to use Graham and a few other names. And we do split our time between the US, UK and Spain, so the names must travel well, ie: no Kevin.

Amy- I do love the name Emerson, and it happens to be my uncle's name. But I'm worried it is too Formula 1 to have an Emerson and Sterling.

Family I just found, I think these parents really love Y and Z:

Zoie Zennia
Margarette Zailynn Grace
Xander Lyal Dalane
Zailee Avylon Lillyann

It does make me wonder why the boy isn't Zander.

"To be honest I always assumed Jillian came before Jill. And that Jill was just short for Jillian. Like Lil/Lilly and Lillian.
Or did that actually happen the other way around as well?
How about Milly and Millicent?"

The original form is Gillian with a short form Gill. In the 15th century Second Shepherds' Play by the Wakefield Master, the wife of the trickster Mak is named Gill. BTW the shepherds are named Gib, Coll and Daw. Gillian is supposedly derived from Julian (as in the 15th century mystic Julian of Norwich). The J spelling is rather later than the G spelling.

Millicent is derived from Melisande which was the name of one of the queens of the Crusader Kingdom of Jerusalem. Milly is the short form.

Re Carter, I was out doing errands today, and while I was out, I had lunch at a family style restaurant. Seated near me was a toddler who was intent on doing exactly the opposite of what his father required of him, and hence his name got called--a lot. He was a little Carter.

Re plainness of names, in my old-fashioned, traditionalist opinion no name can be too plain. However, in my view it is entirely possible for a name to be too fussy, frilly, pretentious, and otherwise out there. I don't think you can go wrong with the old favorites like James, Henry, John, Edward, Thomas, William, etc. There are certainly lots of other good names out there, but there are also names which will turn out to be regrettable for one reason or other.

Poker dude birth announcement--Henry Jude--old stalwart Henry paired with rather less common but still historically established Jude. Good job, IMO.

I know a little Sterling who has a brother named Bishop - I think both are family surnames.

Colleen,

The Thorn Birds' Meggie is actually a Meghann, if I remember correctly.

This is TOTALLY off-topic. But Miriam, could you explain to function of the character Hickscorner in the play of the same name? Does he represent some sort of vice? I vaguely remember reading the play and feeling like I was totally missing something. Medieval lit is not my strong suit.

OK. Back on topic.

Shirley: I like the name Rosalind with Susannah and Isabelle.

Oly: I know a little boy named St3rl3n (spelled just that way--well, with e's instead of 3's) whose sister is P3yton. And I think that they both might be named after prominent sports figures. I personally like Jasper or Henry with Sterling and Anneliese.

I am looking for names for a friend. She has inspirations of Jillian, Amelie, Rose, Truman, Julian. Her last name begins with a Z and sounds kind of like Uneeda. (I made that up)

Any ideas?

O and I think Henry or Bennett goes very nicely with Sterling.

I think I may have read something somewhere that talked about Donald Trump having named his daughter Tiffany. However, she was born in the early 90s, after the name had had its biggest heyday. Trump, although not of a long lineage of "old money," had wealthy real estate developer parents, from what I understand, so he might be far enough removed from plebian origins to be counted as "upper class."

All of the names of his children are interesting, actually. Unless it is a family name, Baron is another "aspirational" type of name. It's interesting that a man who had wealthy parents and who himself became even wealthier would gravitate towards an aristocratic title (the only thing higher than being an American real estate mogul, I suppose). I would imagine this type of name would be more appealing to the type of boot-strap millionaire who came to this country as a taxi-driving immigrant and worked his way up.

Sterling and Anneliese: very nice names, and I agree that you should go with something slightly to the left of Michael, James, Edward, etc. Henry might be okay, though. I'm just concerned that as the kids are growing up, there becomes some sort of issue as to why little James or Matthew is the third one in his class, whilst his brother and sister are identifiable by first name alone. (He might either long for a name like theirs, or they for his).

For a child in the U.S., I agree Edmund, Graham, and Jasper work and sound very well with the other two names.

Miriam, do you think your affinity for a certain type of name might be connected to your work (being immersed in similar names of historical figures?) I know that familiarity absolutely makes my heart grow fonder. When I was doing my graduate thesis, I was working with certain (living!) groups of people, and grew to really like names common to their group, if only because I read and heard them enough to come to like them.

New baby alerts:

Julian Lily LN. This is the first girl I've heard of named Julian--I would assume for Julian of Norwich, but the parents are Jewish (and not literary critics or historians of the Medieval period or any other) so that seems unlikely. Any guesses as to why they chose this name? Not sure if their pronouncing it the traditional Julian or more like Julie-Ann.

Another name announced at my husband's work place:

Zara Alisha Rihanna LN

* should read they're (blush)

The female main character in the novel "The Children of Men" by PD James is Julian. (In the movie of the same name, they rearrange character names among other drastic changes, so Julian isn't the same person there.) When someone asks the character if she's called "Julie," she replied with a puzzled, "No, why should I be?"

Thanks for all the great name suggestions to go with Susannah & Isabelle. Thanks to all the help, I'm finding a lot of names that seem to fit with Susannah & Isabelle, but may not like some of them individually as much on their own. But with pregnancy hormones that can change daily so it's good to have options!

I like all the Rose variations. We had Rosalyn on our list the last time around. I love how it can be pronounced (Roz-a-lyn), but when I look at it, it reads (Rose-a-lyn) to me which mades me think Spanish and not where I wanted to go. I wonder if we'd have a hard time getting people to pronounce it correctly. I had never heard of Roselle before. I think that is very pretty, but want something that ends differently than Isabelle. I also like Rose, but that seems short compared to the other two names so maybe it would work for a middle name. I was thinking Jillian Rose or Jillian Rosemarie would be nice if we didn't find something with a z sound we liked better.

Katie: I do think the Gillian spelling does give the name is bit more of the antique style to fit with the other girls' names better, but I wasn't sure if it would be constantly assumed to be spelled with a J and would rather skip the confusion. I checked Laura's name voyager and it looks like spelling it with a J is more common. My husband is a fan of Gillian Anderson though so maybe he'd push for that version. It's not like people typically spell our first two names correctly anyway! I also love the name Juliet. I was stuck on that name until recently when I got more of a preference for Jillian, but I definately haven't ruled it out!

Hubby isn't wanting to get the girls name narrowed down too bad yet so everything is still up to us finding something to agree on. I'll post back on this thread around the first week of September and let you guys know what we pick. I'm really curious to see where we end up.

oly: congrats on the baby! I thought there was a lot of great suggestions and think something a step off of traditional would fit well with the names you already have. From your list, I like Edward. Did you also consider Edmund? That seems more British to go with Sterling to me. I also liked the suggestions of Graham & Grant. I thought having a one syllable name after a 3 and a 2 sounded nice all together.

Guest: I only think of the Phoebe from Friends when I hear that name, but that can be a good or bad thing. Both names are pretty and not overly used.

Aack. I just caught a typo of my own.

**the** function of the character Hickscorner

Great link here to case of girl whose parents named her Talula does te Hula from hawaii

http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2008/jul/24/familyandrelationship...

Sorry, should be Talula does the Hula from Hawaii. She was so embarrassed that she went to court to be allowed to change her name.

Other examples given were twins named Benson and Hedges and a child called Violence.

Looks like Ethan Hawke and his new wife just had their baby and named her Clementine Jane.

Does he still count as a celebrity?

Keren- thanks for that incredible link. I also feel for Number 16 Bus Shelter (place of conception??). Poor children.

Re: Clementine Jane

Do you think they're pronouncing it the American way (-tyne) or the British way (-teen)? I know Ethan Hawke's wife is from the British Isles (Irish, perhaps?), but I think he's American. I prefer -tyne, but then again, I'm American and it sounds more familiar.

I really think that Jane is the up and coming middle name. They seem to come in pairs, like Ann and Marie, or Grace and Rose nowadays. What do you think will be Jane's ubiquitous middle name pair, if it gets to that point?

A New Zealander friend of mine says that most of these names (the ones that were supposedly submitted but not accepted) are actually urban legends rather than real names.

But, of course, if it says it in the Guardian, it MUST be true!

Cross-posted; I was referring to the names from the article linked above.

Just my $0.02, but I prefer Julianne or Juliana to Jillian. Jillian reminds me of the sports bar/game venue called Jillian's. I also think Grant would go well with Sterling.

SusieQ - I hope so! But what about the ones he says were allowed!

What do you think of calling a child the "wrong" nickname for their name?

I love the name Eleanor, and I have always wanted to name my daughter that (I'm due in 2 weeks). This name is not desperately popular itself, but its common nicknames Ella and Ellie (I'm not into Nora) definitely are. I've always liked the nickname "Elsie" since my dad sometimes called me that for my initials (LC). Do you think it would be weird to use the nickname Elsie, which usually goes with Elizabeth, for a little Eleanor?

Although, with all the talk of Sylvie on the board the other day, I'm thinking of scrapping Eleanor altogether and going with Sylvie! Course we might have a boy, in which case this all will be moot.

Shirley, since you like Rose names what about combining Rose in a name?

Lilah Rose sounds very southern belle to me.

Lida Rose (from song in the Music Man) pronounced LYE-dah.
Lana Rose
Ella Rose
Bella Rose

Fish -- I think Elsie works as a nickname for Elenor... you could also give her the middle name Sylvie or a middle name that starts with a C.

Eleanor Sylvie... think about it.

Fish- Elsie as a nn for Eleanor is perfectly logical. You could call her Eleanor Sylvie, just to add the "s" in her full name :)

Interesting stuff.

My sister, Jill, just Jill, was born in 1986. In her graduating high school class a few years ago there was a Jill, two Jillians, a Jillia (yup!!), a Gillian (soft G) and a Gillianne, all born in '86.

Alsao, her grad class was 68 people big. No real reason as to why this happened, but I thought I'd share!!

Fish - Elsie sounds more natural for Eleanor to me, because they both stress the "Ell" sound which isn't really sounded in Elizabeth. I also far prefer it to Ellie/a and Nora and the link to your childhood nickname is really sweet. Besides, it's not as if there are many little Elizabeth-nicknamed-Elsies running about, so it shouldn't be too confusing.

Veering off-topic, has anyone else noticed that nicknames seem to be becoming more regimented nowadays? I'm seeing a lot of "We're spelling it Maddyson so we can call her Maddy", and "Can we spell it Lizzie if we spell Elisabeth with an 's'?" about. Even on a less drastic scale, there seem to be more Cates and Caties about too, whereas I would instinctively spell it with a K whichever spelling of Catherine it came from. I'm talking more about parents who feel restricted, rather than people who choose to spell their nickname a certain way.

Go with Elsie. It's not "wrong," just unusual--if you like and use Elsie for Eleanor, it IS right for your kid, eh?

(I'm in the same boat--my son, now a teen, uses a nickname that's not usually associated with his very common formal name, but with another very common formal name--but it's what I liked! We've used this nickname from the NICU forward, and it's just accepted; most folks don't even know his "real" name, except on forms.)

Yes, Lucie, I do get the sense from some younger parents that they're afraid the "name police" will issue them a ticket if they use the names, nicknames, and spellings they like and prefer, inconsistencies and all.

It's okay to have fun with a name! It's sad when what should be a joyful, personal gift to your child becomes a stressful exercise in following rules and seeking peer approval.

I agree, Sister Melinda. It's sad indeed... and it brings out the closet anarchist in me. I say bring on the "wrong" nicknames!

"Although, with all the talk of Sylvie on the board the other day, I'm thinking of scrapping Eleanor altogether and going with Sylvie! Course we might have a boy, in which case this all will be moot."

Hey, I know a fiftyish man named "Sylvan," so you never know...

Re: Elinor -- My great-aunt, born in 1909, had this name with this spelling, and I've always liked it.

I think Elsie is the prettiest nickname and it works just FINE with Eleanor. A lot of nicknames add an "s" when the original name doesn't have one. Think of Patsy for Patricia, or Wills for William... and I'm sure there are lots of other examples, too.

"My sister, Jill, just Jill, was born in 1986. In her graduating high school class a few years ago there was a Jill, two Jillians, a Jillia (yup!!), a Gillian (soft G) and a Gillianne, all born in '86.

Also, her grad class was 68 people big. No real reason as to why this happened, but I thought I'd share!!"

Sure there's a reason: The Ethel-Mae Postulate, as discussed in the "X and O roundup" thread just before this one.

Regarding the "regimented nicknames" -- how odd. How would you get, say, Ted from Edward? Call the kid Tedward? Meg from Margaret = Megaret? Color me baffled.

Another old variant is Ellenor; a girl I know has it as a middle name and I've always been fond of it.

This Comment isn't related to the discussion, but...I was just on another baby name forum. An expecting mother had posted a list of names that she was choosing from - everyone that commented gushed about her name choices and how skilled she was at choosing baby names. The names that she was choosing from were names such as;
Lily
Sophia
Emma
Ava
Olivia
I'm not knocking the names, (people would probably not be too fond of the names I chose for my children, so I'm not one to judge) they are pretty, but it sounds like she took the top few names in the country, and people were blown away by her baby naming skills. Basically I'm trying to say, thank-you for giving me somewhere that I can come read intellectual discussions, and get interesting name choices. I love reading this blog and all the great comments. You are a rare and wonderful breed.

Shirley-Something to go with Annalise and Sterling would be something like Grant or Graham as mentioned above by others. However, you say your SO doesn't like Graham, so I would go with Grant. What about names like Wesley, Winston, Howard, Christian, or Kent? To me they sound British yet American.

Oly-ZOE ZOE ZOE! That's my vote. Of course I'm biased. Someone asked about my sn a few threads back and yes it is pronounced Zoe Rhenne(alternate sp of Renee). I also like the Josephine and Rosalie suggestions. Jillian Rose would definately work also if you are really attached to it. I will look if there are others and post again if so.

Re: Gender specific names which has come up often lately, I will make a separate post of something that was posted on one of my genealogy message boards but basically it says that the person had a boy name given to her that was a family name and she used the family name of Courtney for her boy right when it started to be used as a GIRL name.

Lucie -- I absolutely have noticed that nicknames have gotten more regimented. I am Catherine, and always go by Kate. As a kid, the C/K thing never was an issue. I've noticed over the last several years, though, that people are *very* confused by it. Maybe because Cate is becoming a more commonplace nickname. But, come on, Catherine/Kate is NOT that weird!!!

Also, my husband and I are expecting our first child. I'm pushing the name Margaret, after both our maternal grandmothers and because I love the nickname Meg. My husband is reluctant -- he says he just doesn't "get" how Meg is a nickname for Margaret. Frustrating!

Wow, Kate! I thought it was just sort of free-floating knowledge that nicknames can fall pretty far from their formal versions. John = Jack, anyone?

Your husband might be interested in this "Straight Dope" article about nicknames for Margaret, particularly Peggy: http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a3_268.html

"Elsie" is darling for Eleanor/Elinor/Ellenor. (All of those spellings have been around for hundreds of years and I like them all.) Plus, you would have the sentimental tie-in with your Dad's nickname for you-- nice!

I'm always amused that "Ellie" is now an overly-fashionable nickname. When I was being called "Elly"/"Ellie" as a child, it was, if anything, rather nerd-y. I loved it then, but now I much prefer to be nicknamed "Nell", even if my husband is the only one to remember to do it!

I really like it when people take slight liberties with nicknames. Like "Piers" for Peter, or "Zibby" for Elizabeth. They still relate to the original, very traditional name but give it a new "oomph". Some parents are very adept at this, like little "Ravenal"s parents who came up with "Rascal" as his nickname. It's plausible, relates (loosely) to the original formal name, and is amusing to boot. But probably not when he's thirty...

Was just reading veteran newsman Ben Bradlee's memoir, in which he mentions that his second son was named "Dominic" just so he and his wife could nickname him "Dino", which they loved. His third son, with wife Sally Quinn, is named "Josiah Quinn Crowninsheild Bradlee", but always called Quinn...

Re:nn's I never understood the Jack=John combination. My dd is Natalie. We wanted her nn NOT to be Nat so I said Ali(that sp from her name), hubby didn't get the spelling said it was pronounced like the fighter and suggested Allie. I thought that was too far from her real name and ultimately she never was called by ANY nn.
Here's the copy re: the Courtney thing I referenced above (sorry for the length but copying was the only way I could think to post it)-----Post states:
I'm looking for the use of the name Courtney (as a surname, or as a first name
with surname Giffen or Dromgoole) in Scotland (before & after 1600's) and in the
New World (after 1600).

the back story:

This is my middle name -- the story goes that it was given to the 3rd son in
the Giffen or Dromgoole family (I'm not sure if this was a Giffen or Dromgoole
tradition).

When my grandmother was born, she was the 3rd daughter (no sons yet), so they
gave her the name even though it was a male name always borne by male ancestors.

Then it was given to me as I was the 3rd child after 2 brothers. My parents
didn't realize they were going to have another boy 13 yrs later - they could've
given it to him. That's OK, he got "Giffen" which is an awesome name.

All my life I was ribbed about having a boy's name -- as did my grandmother.
So, when my son was born (our first) in 1972, I spontaneously gave him the name
"Courtney" - to give it 'back' to a male heir. Finally I thought I was getting
it back as it was supposed to be even though Josh wasn't a 3rd born.

Well, who knew folks would start naming their girls "Courtney" for the first
time in all of history????? ?? It all started in the 70's!! So my son has been
ribbed all his life for the name! I'm thinking the name is always going to be a
source of ribbing in our family - one way or the other!

He's all grown up -- a mover & shaker in LA, but again, getting the ribbing
from some friends. So I'm trying to research male ancestors in my line who bore
the name. Thanks! Anny

I think this is funny and a great example of things this board can relate too!

BrooklynBabe -- Agreed, but my sense is that many more of the little boys who go by Jack nowadays have the given name Jack, rather than John. Who knows why... It could be that people don't "get" how Jack comes from John. But, I've often heard the sentiment -- why would I name him something if I'm not going to call him that? Case in point: a friend is considering naming her baby simply Maggie, not Margaret.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that "Jack" for "John" came first by way of "Jock"?

So, there'd be John= Jock= Jack. You can see the logical progression there.

Just like Mary= Mally= Molly. I know there are other great examples out there...

"Agreed, but my sense is that many more of the little boys who go by Jack nowadays have the given name Jack, rather than John."

You're probably right, Kate, but there's the very famous example of John "Jack" Kennedy -- not to mention his siblings Edward "Teddy" Kennedy and Robert "Bobby" Kennedy. Who today would have to have been named "Bobbert," I guess, to have the nickname "Bobby."

Sigh. I suddenly feel old.

My mother has a little book from her childhood about the name John. The first page is a little English boy in a school uniform with the caption "This is John." Other pages show the same boy in cultural specific garb with the captions "In Russia, he is called Ivan," etc. I've always been amused by the shirtless boy in overalls with the caption, "In America, he is called Jack."

QUADS Update! Babies are born~!
There was a few worrying moments for the boy both during and after labor, but all 4 babies and mother are accounted for! :)

After intense baby-naming discussion since my last post the names are...[drumroll, please]:

Rosalie Sophiah [due to these comments!]
Ebony Alexina
Dania Margaret
Nathaniel Dex

Y'all can breathe easy again :)
Except that there's a new question brought up by the nurse: How do you pronounce Dania?
"Danny-ah"?
"Dawn-ee-ah"?
"Dah-nya"?

Well, of course, I feel compelled to mention that "just Jack," has been a popular given name in the US for some time. It was 27 in 1908-even more popular than it is now!

Eimi-I might say Dan-ya or Duh-nee-uh. What is mom's intent?
I'm so glad to hear of their safe arrival!

Wow, Eimi, despite your friend's pre-birth confusion, she pulled it off! I think Rosalie, Ebony, Nathaniel, and Dania are good choises, given how all-over-the-place she was--they're not overdone, not too matchy-matchy, and not too out-there weird. Dania I've never heard of, but it's similar to Nadia (were they considering that at one point).

I'm feeling rather relieved! And certainly glad they are all faring well.

*choices. What's with me and my spelling these days?

Glad to hear the quads have arrived safely and that their Mom has given up the Ebony and Ivory theme- I like Nathaniel, Rosalie and Sophiah (although I prefer it without the h).Looking at the name Dania, I would say 'DAN-ya'.

My father is John, nn Jack, born 1930's in the Mid-West. When he was a child, he was known as "Little Jackie LN", which I find very funny now. Jackie seems very female to me.... although I can think of Jackie Gleason and there are probably many others.
I remember watching a TV show where the contestant was John, nn Jack and the presenter asked him why that was in a very perplexed manner. I was astounded.

We also have a Scottish friend named John who is known to everyone as Iain.

I'm sorry people are losing track of the original nn's. Signs of the times...

NN dilemma here.

We wanted to name our son a biblical "J' name. We went with Jonah and at home we call him JoJo about half the time. He's about to switch from a daycare center (where the kids and teachers mostly call him JoJo but it is written Jonah on cubby, art projects, etc) to a Jewish preschool. The director at the new school tells me we need to "pick one" name for him as he enters his new school. I mention that the school is Jewish because I think this accounts for the surprising numbers of Jonahs. There is one in each grade/class and there is another little Jonah younger than him that will be entering the year after my Jonah.

Jonah uses his names interchangeably and when we ask him which he likes he gives a different answer each time (he's 2!) One of the reasons we chose Jonah is that we thought it would be less common, who knew that we should have gone with Jacob or Josh for that!?!? I always hated that there we 3-4 Jennifer/Jenny/Jens in my every class which is why I'm leaning towards JoJo for preschool. Still, we really don't expect that he will be JoJo forever (except as a family term of endearment, of course). I'm guessing once he goes to public school there will not be as many Jonahs around.

What should we do?

I relate to the trend of a liking a longer more formal name. I also like nicknames. I would definately go with Jillian and use the name Jill.

My daughter is Elizabeth but we call her Libby. I'm pregnant now with twins. I have no idea what I'm having yet, but I like the name Nina very much. Does anyone have a suggestion for a longer or more formal sounding full name for Nina? Or is Nina legit enough on it's own?

Congrats on the twins! I think Nina is a great name all on its own

Weird that this post started with Jillian- it's on my girl name list along with Annabelle (which my husband isn't going for...)
It's great to see everyone's opinion on it, and it seems to all be positive! Thanks!

Then, after reading all of these posts, the whole John/Jack thing came up. My husband is John, and his father John passed away when he was young. Therefore, if we have a boy, we have to name him John after his grandfather. I'm dreading our baby boy becoming Johnny, as my husband was when he was little, so I've been trying to push naming him John and calling him Jack. He just doesn't how John can be Jack- it doesn't make any sense to him, and I'm losing that battle. I'm ok with John, just NOT Johnny!
I don't get the John=Jock=Jack explanation- where in the world did anyone get Jock from John?

PS- yes, I have realized that makes my choices Jack and Jill :) (but Jillian would never be Jill- I think Jilly would be her nickname if she ends up with one, and since we only have one on the way, we won't end up with a Jack and Jill in the long run!)

Erin: Our two-year-old John is called just John by most everyone, even though we sometimes call him Johnny at home. I think people these days are less likely to presume a nickname... possibly as a correlary to the rigidity of nicknaming that has sprung up?

That's corollary. Right.

itchybrain, Nina is a totally legit name on its own. It's technically (I believe) a nickname for Ann/Anne or Anna, along the lines of Nan and Nancy. I think you could also use it as a nickname for many N names, as well-- Naomi, Natalie, Ninette/Nanette. Or you could use it as a nickname for names with the "ina" sound-- Valentina, Whilemina, Christina, Katrina, Rosina, etc.

Antonina, too

yet another Jenny-

I have to say, I only know one Jonah, and I know absolutely Gobs of little kids and babes.
Who knew?!

Personally, I'd go with Jonah at preschool. I think JoJo has an endearing quality better for home. I also think it's a teensy bit obnoxious that the director insists you choose, though I can understand that it makes things easier.

Itchybrain-I think Nina is just fine on its own and lovely with Libby.

I was reading an obituary today of a woman named Willamary. Her nickname was "Vicky."
I think it's certainly true that nns were less regimented in previous generations. I also think folks were more inclined to just let a nn "happen." For example, a gal overheard me calling Jack "Jaybird," an admitedly unimaginative nn we've always used for him. She told me her father in law used to strip all his clothes off and run out the door, so everyone called him Jay-as in naked as a jaybird.
She said she was married for years before she learned he had a different given name!

Perhaps we're just more controlling of everything our wee ones do these days? Sorry if that's a bit of a ramble...I've given the boys over to Caillou for a bit.
Take care, all!